Welcome to the Real Tea Podcast, brought to you by Tennessee Realtors.
I’m your host, Angela Shields.
This podcast is created for Tennessee Realtors to get the tea on all things real estate in Tennessee.
We’ll bring you engaging conversations with esteemed guests in the real estate industry and cover a wide array of topics including current events, governmental affairs, education, and legal updates.
We are very excited and very honored to have with us today Joe Harris from NAR, who is the Vice President of Advocacy.
Welcome, Joe.
Thank you.
Great to be here with you.
And I’m looking forward to having a great conversation.
I’m sorry that I brought the DC weather with me.
Well, it is cold.
You did bring that with you.
My apologies.
That’s okay.
Before we get started on anything having to do with advocacy, I always ask my guests, you happen to have a great cup of a hot beverage.
I do.
What is in your teacup?
It’s coffee.
It’s coffee.
It’s black coffee.
Black coffee.
So I drink my coffee black most times, unless I’m feeling really festive during the holidays.
I like to mix it up a little bit and put a little creamer in there with some pumpkin spice or something like that.
Just to spice things up a little bit.
But yeah, right now, this is just black coffee.
Black coffee, but pumpkin spice.
That’s great, especially on this cold day.
We just wrapped up our Leadership and Advocacy training, and you were part of that, which we appreciated very much.
So thank you for coming all the way to Tennessee.
It was great to be here.
You offered so much great information, and we are going to dive into that.
And before we do, I’d like to take this opportunity to do an introduction.
Have you tell us a little bit about yourself?
We’ve been talking because of football, because it’s interesting to find out that you’re actually from South Carolina and a Gamecock fan.
That’s right.
Which, of course, this is ball territory.
I know.
And South Carolina is getting left out of the college football playoffs.
One too many losses, I think, but we finished the season very strong.
You did.
They looked strong.
That’s right.
That’s right.
So tell us a little bit more about yourself.
OK, well, I’m originally from South Carolina, and I moved to DC right out of college in 2002.
I went to South Carolina for law school.
But for undergrad, I went to Davison College in North Carolina.
And so I moved to DC in June of 2002.
I graduated from college in May.
So I didn’t take a lot of time off, but I actually went to go work for another Davison grad, a guy named John Spratt.
He was a congressman from South Carolina, chairman of the Budget Committee.
He was in Congress for 28 years, and he was one of those now extinct members of Congress, a Democrat who represented a Republican district for the majority of his time in Congress.
And I also worked for Senator Joe Lieberman from Connecticut, an independent.
So both of them were extremely influential on me personally.
They were mentors.
Obviously, they were great bosses, very smart, always asked questions about what was best for the district, what was best for the state, as opposed to maybe what the party was asking about.
But it kind of really did inform my thinking.
It made me think critically.
And in between those two stints, I was actually with Mr.
Spratt from 2002 to 2006.
I went to law school in 2006, came back to his office after I took the bar in 2009, and stayed on the hill until I left in 2013, when Senator Lieberman retired.
And found my way to the National Association of Realtors nine years ago, which is hard to believe.
That is hard to believe.
Nine years has really flown by, but it’s been a great place to work.
I really enjoy the people I work with.
And the thing that attracted me to NAR in the first place was I actually remembered having the realtors in our office during their fly-in, and they would come in and they would bring 50 people and try to cram into our office.
But they usually came with some South Carolina peaches, so I wasn’t complaining too much.
And probably told you they were only bringing 10.
Yeah, that’s exactly right.
So many times we moved the meeting down to the Longworth cafeteria to accommodate everybody or the budget committee hearing or something like that.
But yeah, it’s funny how, you know, I remember those meetings very well.
And it’s funny how now things come full circle and now we’re the ones crowding other people’s offices and telling them we’re only bringing 10 people.
You know all the tricks and how to do it now, right?
Well, you’re doing a great job for us at NAR.
We appreciate you very much.
Thank you.
So, besides when you were in that office and you visited with the South Carolina Realtors, tell me, do you have a fun or a favorite story from when you were on Capitol Hill that you can share with us?
Well, so, I don’t know if it’s fun, but it’s fun for me.
One of the best things about working on the hill was you got to meet a lot of interesting people, you know, foreign leaders, you know, actors.
My number one thrill is probably when I got to meet Jack Nicklaus, the golfer.
Really?
And Arnold Palmer.
I met both of them.
Now, at the same time, they were both getting the congressional gold medal, or congressional medal.
And there were receptions for both of them.
And I came prepared when I met Jack Nicklaus with my 1986 Sports Illustrated, with him on the cover, winning his six masters.
And I remember asking him about Barbara, how his wife was doing, and how I was a huge fan.
And waiting behind me was John Boehner, who kept just kind of being like, dude, are you finished?
I’m ready to get in there and talk to Jack Nicklaus.
But I got him to sign my Sports Illustrated, 1986 Sports Illustrated, and those are the types of things that only happen on Capitol Hill.
I also, when I started in Spratt’s office, right out of college, you can imagine, I was a legislative assistant, and my portfolio wasn’t quite as robust as it would become later on, with a little more experience, a law degree and all that.
So, one of the issues I handled was ag, and my first bill that I worked on was the Horse Slaughter Prevention Act.
Oh, my.
Which, in Kentucky, was extremely popular.
South Carolina, horse country, very popular.
And one of the biggest champions of the Horse Slaughter Prevention Act was none other than Bo Derrick.
So, Bo Derrick wanted to thank me for working so hard on this bill, and asked me if I wanted to go to dinner.
So, you can imagine my boss, John Spratt, when he found out I was going to dinner with Bo Derrick, and he was just like, how did I not get invited to dinner with Bo Derrick?
But I met Bo Derrick, I met Tony Curtis, I met James Taylor all through the Horse Slaughter Prevention Act.
So I was like, man, if I can meet all these famous people dealing with something like the Horse Slaughter Prevention Act, I think I’m going to stick around for a while, see what else I can do.
Yeah, that makes up for the, you know, the paltry sums I was getting paid.
It was all about the experience.
And man, what a great time to be on the Hill.
That does sound exciting.
Wow.
So now that you’re with NAR, you’re working with Shannon McGann.
Yep, she’s wonderful, great boss.
And has really reformed and sort of transformed the way that we’re doing advocacy.
Right.
In a great way.
The whole team is great.
And just to stop for a second, the whole advocacy program is very well respected at NAR.
And that’s a lot to, they say it’s to RPAC and it’s to what the realtors do and they participate, but a lot of that is also what you all do when the realtors don’t even see what you do on a day to day.
You’re there, you’re making the calls, you’re visiting Capitol Hill.
You work nonstop.
Yeah.
And it’s just like in your business, it’s the business of relationships and it takes time to build those.
And this is not a job for everybody, right?
There’s a lot of stuff, theft hours, getting to know people, getting to know families.
But I think the most important part about the job that we do is building that trust and knowing that when we share information with them, that information is going to be accurate.
And we’re going to give you our side.
We’re going to talk to you about our issues, but we’re not going to sugarcoat it.
We’re not going to give you half of the truth.
We’re not going to give you the other perspective, because at the end of the day, we want the staff and the members to make informed decisions.
But it’s something that I love, because at the end of the day, we’re talking about home ownership.
We’re talking about the ability to grow wealth by owning private property, by owning a home, by owning land, by being able to borrow against that, to put your kids through college, to do other things.
So really, you’ll be hard pressed to find another mechanism, savings mechanism that’s as effective as real estate.
And it is very interesting to see that so many of our members are involved in so many different aspects of real estate.
A lot of them are housing providers, for instance.
So not only are they advising folks on one of the largest purchases, if not the largest purchase they’ll make, but they’re also providing safe, affordable homes, shelter, and rental.
So it’s, or maybe it’s, maybe they’ve got some Airbnb or whatever they’re doing for vacation.
So it’s, it’s a fascinating sector that is so consequential.
And I think the thing I love about it the most is that it’s so bipartisan.
You know, these issues are not red issues or blue issues or purple, they’re purple issues.
But it really does transcend race, it transcends party, it transcends socioeconomic circumstances.
My first place, and I remember it really well, I’m sorry, I probably have another question here, but it’s something’s coming to mind.
I remember buying my first condo, about, I don’t know, 1,300 square feet, one bedroom, one bath, in Southwest DC.
And took out an FHA loan, I think I put down 4% with a little help from my parents because I was working in the Senate, wasn’t able to save a ton, I was still paying back some law school loans.
But you never forget the feeling of owning something, of having your first home.
And that’s a feeling that I want for everybody.
You know, and from there, you’re able to move on to baby buying a house.
I still own that condo, and I don’t think I’ll ever get rid of it.
Because guess what it does now?
It’s a home for another couple that have lived there now for five years.
So it’s a beautiful thing, and it’s what makes a country go.
And quite frankly, sustains this country economically during the lean time.
So it’s a great place to work to say that you’re a small part of that important work that contributes to the economy as a whole.
Yeah, we always talk about that we are helping with the American dream, and you just described it perfectly, I think, what the American dream really is.
I’ll also share that just the other day, I was in a meeting with realtors, and we were talking about legislative activity and RPAC, and one of them happened to be a commercial realtor.
And she was sharing that so often, we focus on the housing side of it, but oftentimes, we are pushing legislation that actually helps the commercial realtor, and for them to be able to buy commercial buildings or protect their rights as a owner of commercial property.
Yeah, 1031 is a perfect example of that.
It’s all about commercial, it’s all about housing affordability and availability.
Just in that one section of the code, there’s a lot of implications.
But yeah, you’re right, we have been doing a lot, particularly through the pandemic with so many vacant office spaces.
One of our biggest tax priorities was really creating that tax environment where you could have those conversions from an office space to either mixed use or residential, what have you, depending on how it’s zoned.
But these are the types of things that are available to you, the types of policies that are available to you through the tax code.
And that’s why we do probably spend a disproportionate amount of time talking about TCJA and the tax reform discussion is coming up because on the federal level, the biggest impact you’re going to have on the ability to impact the lack of housing inventory, the lack of stock, is through the tax code.
I mean, there’s very, there’s not many avenues available to the federal government, but through tax incentives, grants, those types of things.
Ultimately, the tough decisions have to be made at the local and state level in terms of zoning restrictions and regulations and cutting through red tape.
But the tax code is obviously a very large vehicle with a lot of money and a lot of competing interests.
And so, you know, as we talked to individuals, members of Congress, staff on the Hill about the importance of making sure we’re protecting the 199A qualified business interest deduction, we’re protecting the 1031 like kind of exchange, we’re creating an environment where it’s going to be easier for private industry to come in and help to rehab, rehabilitate some of these homes to put more homes online.
We come through that, through the lens of economic development, job creation, GDP growth, macro.
Really, looking at it from what’s good for the economy.
So there’s a lot of different ways to look at it.
But when there’s so many competing interests in a bill that’s $4 trillion from defense, healthcare, oil and gas, there’s so many sectors out there that create this great environment, this great economy that we enjoy.
You have to really make that argument about how your policies are going to impact and better the economy as a whole.
They’re going to grow GDP.
That’s something that gets the interests of everybody, no matter what party you happen to belong to.
So in that way, I think we have a really compelling case to make, because we are solving a lot of different problems.
Everybody knows that in this country, homelessness is a problem.
Being able to live close to where you work is becoming increasingly a problem.
Affordability.
Affordability.
And so, yes, that and solving the housing needs of working class folks, workforce housing, I like to say, that is important in and of itself and contributes to the economy and a stronger economy through more productivity and all the rest that we can make the case when we’re talking to the tax writing committees about why they should favor some of the things that we’re talking about, some of our tax revisions over maybe some of the others that they’re talking about.
But ultimately, the tax code is a statement of your priorities as a country and as a government.
And we make the case that we should prioritize the ability of people to afford and be able to live in a safe place close to where they live.
Because child care is an issue and all that stuff.
And obviously, transportation.
So these are all sort of the tangentially related issues that spring out of our conversations about housing when we’re on the hill.
That are all linked together.
So with that all being said, do you expect to see any changes with the tax reforms?
Oh, there’ll be some changes because there have to be.
The only way, really, to get Congress to do anything is to have a deadline.
To have what we call must pass pieces of legislation.
Otherwise I think they would just be content to kick the can down the road.
So fortunately for us, or unfortunately, I think we’ll find out here in a few months, the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act that passed in 2017 is up for reauthorization.
And without congressional action, it’s going to expire in its entirety, which means we go revert back to the pre-2017 tax framework.
That now that we’ve gotten used to having some of these tax benefits that have helped the industry, we want to make sure that that doesn’t happen.
We want to make sure that a lot of the provisions that are part of the 2017 law are preserved.
And so you’re going to see a lot of changes, and you might have read or heard about a process called reconciliation.
That is basically, it pertains more to the Senate than anything.
In the Senate, you got to have 60 votes to pass anything.
And so what the reconciliation process affords you is the ability to have an expedited passage of tax, revenue, debt-related legislation in the Senate.
And so rather than having to have that 60-vote threshold, all you need really is a simple majority, which the Republicans have.
And that enables them to get something through very quickly.
Otherwise, it would just not go anywhere because they didn’t get the 60 votes.
So that’s important because you can pass a lot of consequential legislation through reconciliation.
The Affordable Care Act on the Democratic side passed through reconciliation.
The last TCGA bill under President Trump’s first term passed under reconciliation.
So you can really make some monumental changes to the way that Americans live their lives, the way that businesses organize, decide whether they’re going to open factories, that kind of thing.
And so we think we’re going to see action sooner rather than later on the tax reform, because there’s a certain benefit to striking one of the iron’s heights.
You know, you’ve just taken back the Senate, the Republicans flipped four seats, and they’ve got a pretty sizable majority these days.
That’s a sizable majority, you know, 53 to 47.
On the House side, it’s a little tighter.
Speaker Johnson is going to have a much narrower majority, 220 to 215, but he immediately loses three Republicans on his side, two to the administration, and one to a resignation.
They’ll solve that problem.
They’re going to have special elections and all that stuff.
It’s going to take time to do that.
So for the near term, it’s going to be a lot tighter.
But what’s going to be interesting to see is, you know, where both sides are in terms of their priorities.
Where are the Republicans going to coalesce in terms of trying to find common ground within their own caucus to get something done?
And also the Democratic side, where are they going to coalesce to find common ground around what they want to see as a caucus?
And I can guarantee you the number one goal for Speaker Johnson and for minority leader Hakeem Jeffries is for their caucus to be singing from the same sheet of music.
The last thing they want in a fight like this is, the last thing Johnson wants is for some people in his caucus to go off and jeopardize the ability to stay on message when they’re trying to get something through.
And if you’re Hakeem Jeffries, the last thing you want is for Speaker Johnson to peel off a couple Democrats to come along and join the Republicans.
The reconciliation process by its nature is a partisan exercise because you’re basically telling the other side, we’re going to do this without you.
That’s the message you’re sending through reconciliation.
Both sides have done it.
It’s not a great way to legislate as somebody who appreciates the way that we used to negotiate things.
Nobody got everything they wanted, but you were able to fight the good fight, reach across the aisle, get as much as you can, and then live to fight another day.
And in that way, a lot of the changes that you saw were incremental.
Yeah.
You know, you didn’t have these wild swings left and right based on who was in charge, because there was more bi-partisan buy-in.
There was skin in the game on both sides.
And reconciliation really does take that tool away from you.
And so our job is to make sure, with one-party control, that there are some…
that what we want to see happen in some of this legislation happens.
And that whatever sheet of music, the leader, Leader Thune on the Republican side, Speaker Johnson on the Republican side, the president, whatever sheet of music they’re singing from, that our songs are on that sheet.
Right.
That’s really our goal right now.
And that’s something that, oh, by the way, we’ve been working on since the very beginning.
We, before we knew who the president was going to be, before we knew who was going to control the House, our number one priority was making sure that we were in there talking to both sides, both tax writing committees, talking about our priorities, because we didn’t want the first time they found out about a 1031 or about 199A was when they started bringing up reconciliation.
And I talked earlier about this new Congress.
One of the challenges that we have as lobbyists is, and all of us who are involved in advocacy, is just the new faces, a lot of turnover.
And that’s been a problem now for several Congresses where you get a lot of new members of Congress, a lot of new staff.
Well, this next Congress, the 119th, is going to be no exception.
63 new members of Congress, new faces, 12 new senators.
And that relationship piece that I started with, when we started this conversation, we’re going to have to start over and work our way to building those relationships.
But we have an infrastructure at our organization starting with the locals, starting with the FPCs.
And that’s why that process is so very important, especially in a new Congress, to make sure we have people there that have relationships or have the ability to really work on building those relationships.
And then we come and do cleanup on the federal side in DC.
But it starts always with what’s going on back home.
And so, it’s going to be exciting to see how it all shakes out.
We’re trying to do our best to educate the FPCs and to educate our members about what’s at stake with these, with the new TCJA 2.0, as we are fond of calling it.
But we talk so much about it because really, you know, there are other things going on, right?
There’s a National Defense Authorization Bill that needs to be passed, there’s a Farm Bill that needs to be passed.
But in our world, in the Real Tea World, this is the Super Bowl of legislation, is the tax reform.
Right.
Because whatever happens now, you’re stuck with for a decade, you know?
And you want to be stuck with some good stuff.
Yes, so that we can look when we’re sure.
And when we were in this session, you shared that there’s a new group that’s being put together that is a way to help the members serving in the House or in the Senate be able to educate each other.
The real estate caucus.
So there are a lot of caucuses on Capitol Hill, and the real estate caucus, ironically enough, was came about because one of our lobbyists was having a conversation, I think it was with Congressman Alford from Missouri, about some of the challenges, some of the things he was reading in the paper about the settlement, about commissions, and it’s funny, on both sides of the aisle, we’ve been having very similar conversation that the outset with people on the Hill.
They didn’t quite understand what was going on.
The articles they were reading were trying to paint us to look kind of negative, but they weren’t sure what point they were trying to make, and they basically came to us and said, what the heck is going on here?
I’m sure they know better than anybody that the media is not nice.
They are not your friend at your own peril.
Yes.
I mean, you talk to them and they’ll take whatever they want to take out of your complete sentences, but neither here nor there.
These conversations were happening with our lobby team as they were with the GADs, the AEs, the FPCs.
And they just wanted to know, hey, are we OK?
Are we do we need help?
Do we need somebody to fight back?
And so we had folks like Lou Correa, who’s a realtor, a congressman from California, and others who said, I know what they’re writing is not accurate, because I was a realtor for decades.
And that’s how the Real Estate Caucus came about.
Out of lemons, we made some lemonade.
And what the caucus does is it allows members of Congress, in our case, we have 55 members of Congress who are part of the Real Estate Caucus, bipartisan, pretty evenly split between Republicans and Democrats.
But what it allows these folks to do is to, yes, we will provide information, resources, talk about some of the things that are top of mind for our industry at NAR, but it also allows the mortgage bankers, the homebuilders, the REITs, the multifamily housing.
It allows them an opportunity to talk about what’s going on in their industries and their organizations as well.
And with that information, members of Congress educate each other about some of the big topics that these groups come to them on.
And so, on this caucus, you can have people who are on financial services, ways and means, labor, education and workforce, all different types of VA committee, all different types.
So when an issue, like the issue that we had with the VA, home loan, where they weren’t necessarily allowed to compensate their real estate professionals directly, and we addressed that issue very early, right around mid-year.
But when that topic comes up, someone who’s on the VA committee can speak up and say, this is what came out of the hearings that we had.
And somebody on financial services can come and talk about an issue that has a jurisdiction on financial services.
So that it’s, in a way, it’s colleagues educating each other.
And there’s a trust there.
There’s a, you know, there’s something special where it’s not a lobbyist or some outside group coming to…
They’re all in it together.
They’ve got to take tough votes.
They’ve got to consider some pretty significant legislation.
There’s power in having members of Congress make our case to other members of Congress for why the permissions are exactly so important.
So, we’re very excited about the Real Estate Caucus.
We think they’re going to do a lot of good things.
It all starts with the fact that it’s bipartisan.
And even in a government where there’s one party control, there’s still going to be the need for bipartisan support, for bipartisan collaboration on a lot of the big ticket items.
Sure.
Sure.
So, we’re getting close to the end.
Oh, no.
I know.
It goes fast, doesn’t it?
It does go fast.
I didn’t even finish my coffee yet.
To kind of wrap, we haven’t quite touched on the new administration coming in.
What are your thoughts?
What do you kind of expect?
What do you expect to see next year?
What are you hopeful for?
Yeah, it’s there.
I think we have some guy, we’re not kind of marching into this blindly.
Donald Trump was president before, so there’s a record there.
There are certain tendencies, but it’s going to be a completely new cast, starting with his vice president, Mike Pence’s, decided not to go it again.
But there’s going to be new cabinet secretaries.
You know, who knew that Kennedy would be heading up the health department.
It’s just going to be interesting.
We are excited because, again, we had strong relationships on both sides, and we were prepared for a Harris presidency and a Trump presidency.
And you have to do that.
If you’re an organization our size, you can’t just say, well, let’s just see what happens and wait to see which way the election goes.
No, we were in talking to both camps, trying to get in there and talk about the issues that were important to us because we wanted to make sure our bases recovered.
But with this administration, we expect there to be a big emphasis, obviously, on debt reduction, which could have implications for tax reform because the tax bill is going to be a large bill, trillions of dollars.
And in the same vein, I think this administration has made a priority really cutting the national debt and the recurring deficits that we see year over year, which I think is a very good goal.
And by the way, it’s a bipartisan goal.
They’re Democrats that are applauding the Elon Musk Department of Government.
Was it DOGE, the Department of Government, Waste or whatever.
So that’s one thing, because the debt is out of control.
And I think everybody agrees on that.
And administrations on both sides, for many decades, have contributed to that debt.
And so to, we’re all hopeful that something meaningful does come out of that.
But what you don’t want to see is that cuts are being made to the wrong programs, cuts being made to the wrong tax provisions on the chopping block.
And so that’s why, again, it goes back to making the case for why this is a down payment, the 199A, 1031, tax credits, you know, opportunity zones, tax credits for private business to come in and help us create more housing.
That’s a down payment on a stronger economy down the road.
That is not a cost if it creates wealth opportunity and grows the economy down the road.
But we expect there to be a huge emphasis on efficiencies, cutting regulation and red tape, which everyone, you know, as much as I travel around this, what I hear all these stories about, just it seems like people aren’t using common sense when it comes to some of these regulations about where you can build and how you can build and building codes.
And at the end of the day, there’s a lot of wealth on the sidelines.
I think that folks are excited about being tapped, that it’s waiting to be unleashed.
And so that’s going to have a great benefit for everybody, if it happens that way.
So I think folks are optimistic about what they’re hearing.
Some of the things that caused some concern, the GSEs, the government-sponsored enterprises, as Fannie and Freddie, obviously, they are very integral to the liquidity that we enjoy in the mortgage insurance market.
And to the extent these enterprises are taken out of conservatorship, perhaps privatized, we want to make sure that there’s some type of implicit government guarantee, because it’s important.
That’s, you know, it’s an important ingredient to what has made them successful with the Fed and wanting to sort of, you know, control interest rates or have a say in how interest rates go.
Hoping that cooler heads will prevail there.
They have sort of an independent role for a reason.
When you’re talking about lowering and raising interest rates, it should be based on fundamentals.
It should be based on tried and true economic data and things that have been done in the past and not just, you know, well, this person, you know, well, you know, I just think we need to raise it, you know, or I think we need to lower it.
It’s just, you know, so there are certain things, but, you know, a lot of us talk, you know, at the end of the day, Congress has a role as a separate, co-equal branch of government, and they’ll have their say in some of these, you know, some of these ideas, and at this point, they’re just ideas, because, you know, I haven’t seen a bill.
There’s not a bill yet.
So, but I think there’s excitement, excitement for just the ability to see what happens, see what can, see what the potentials are, see what, you know, how we can help move the ball forward.
And that goes back to what I said earlier about our role.
Our role at NAR is to work with whoever the president is, whoever the speaker is.
And we spend a lot of our time and a lot of our resources supporting members of Congress who are here to do good work.
They’re here to roll up their sleeves.
They’re here to move the ball forward.
They’re not here to, you know, grandstand and stand in the way of progress.
We really want to find on both sides those people who are here to govern.
And I think that’s where we see ourselves is that group, that organization, that glue, that even in the most partisan of times, we can always say, hey, will you co-sponsor this bill with this Democrat?
Will you speak on behalf and write a letter supporting this tax revision with this Republican?
And the answer just about every time is absolutely.
The bipartisanship is there even if we don’t see it in our day-to-day lives, it exists.
And our job is to make sure that it keeps churning to the benefit of not only our members, but the American people who benefit from it.
Absolutely.
And you all do a great job at that.
Well, we have a lot of help from you all, so we appreciate you.
We really do.
Yeah.
Well, we appreciate you being here today.
Yeah.
And taking the time to do this.
And again, appreciate you being a part of our program.
It was fun.
It’s been a lot of fun.
So thank you.
Yeah.
Maybe next time, I’ll bring some warmer weather.
Yes, please do.
And we will take advantage of it.
So again, thank you so much.
Thank you.
It was great.
Thank you all for joining us today on the Real Tea Podcast.
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