Welcome to the Real Tea Podcast, brought to you by Tennessee Realtors and sponsored by Rule First, helping you live closer to what matters.
I’m your host, Angela Shields.
This podcast is created for Tennessee Realtors to get the tea on all things real estate in Tennessee.
We’ll bring you engaging conversations with esteemed guests in the real estate industry and cover a wide array of topics, including current events, governmental affairs, education, and legal updates.
We are so excited today to have Matt Russell with us, who is the government relations, I’m going to say specialist, with Ramsey, Farah, Russell, and Smith.
So Matt, I have waited a long time to have you here.
I’m so excited.
So thank you for joining us.
Angela, I appreciate you having me, looking forward to it.
And I appreciate you introducing me as Matt Russell, I think, not to confuse our guests.
I think most people know me as Addison’s husband.
I wasn’t even going to mention it today.
I think I’m in a good Tennessee Real Tours husband’s group, because I know Bo is often introduced as Angela’s husband.
Yes.
So it’s a good crew to be in.
It is.
And when I think of you, I think of you as part of our team, because you work so well for us.
I know y’all do so many other things, but I just feel like you’re part of our team, because you work so hard on our behalf at the Capitol.
And I’m just going to start out by telling you how much we appreciate you.
Well, we appreciate that, and enjoy being on the team.
Obviously, Addison does so much more for the organization outside of the government affairs.
So it does feel like, I know from our perspective, that we are part of the family, and we see members at all the events, and then really just out.
We have a few that we go to church with, so yeah, it feels like we’re part of the family, and we appreciate it.
Yeah.
So I’m gonna start out, I always ask all of our guests, we are called the Real Tea, and I like to ask, what do you like in your tea cup?
Well, I would say, this time of day, it’s probably water or coffee.
Definitely five o’clock on Friday, it’s probably gonna be a Tennessee whiskey.
Ooh.
But we’ll stick to coffee this time of day.
Great.
The other thing I wanna ask you is, so often people see you at the podium, giving us our information about our governmental affairs and the issues we’re following, which we are gonna talk about.
But what I wanna do is let people do a deeper dive and really know a little bit more about you.
So if you don’t mind, give us a little bit about your history, how you actually got into this business and just kind of where it all started.
Yeah, for sure.
I always tell folks, I’m probably in government relations on purpose, but on accident.
I always had an interest and a love for politics.
And when I was getting ready to go to college, I was talking to my parents and kind of deciding what I wanted to major in.
And my dad said, well, don’t major in political science.
He said, I have a lot of friends that major in political science, and they’re often trying to find jobs.
I said, okay, so I always wanted to go to law school.
And so I went to MTSU and got a degree in concrete industry management with the intent of practicing construction law and going to law school after.
But throughout college, I just still had that love and passion for politics.
Worked on campaigns throughout college.
When I graduated, I was looking for jobs after school.
I had a good buddy of mine at the time running a state senate campaign here in Nashville.
He just said, hey, why don’t you just come volunteer for me, knock on doors, and I’ll buy you lunch.
And so I did, and then that turned into, hey, why don’t you just stick around for the rest of the campaign?
We’ll pay you.
And so I did that.
And then we won.
Then the boss of the time of the state senate, Steve Dickerson, kind of said, hey, why don’t you just come to the capital with me?
So that’s how I got in.
I kind of on purpose, but on accident, worked at the state capital for a few years, have done several different campaigns over the years, and then got into lobbying back in 2016.
And I know we took advantage of your campaign experience, and we did a campaign school for members that wanted to actually take the realtor experience and then go serve, whether it was at their local community, on a city council or wherever they chose to serve, or even a state position.
And you taught them how to go through the process of becoming an official.
I’m hoping we’ll do that again.
Yeah, I still to this day, when I go to different realtor events, I’m stopped by folks that were at that class and say, hey, are we doing this again?
And I was telling them, hey, talk to Angela and team.
I think we’re gonna look at doing that again.
But that was awesome.
I always enjoy getting up there.
It’s good to have folks, members of organizations, that want to get involved in the process.
And I think realtors, and I say auctioneers probably, are really good politicians because they’re very known in their community.
They’re already at all these civic events or community events.
A lot of folks already know who they are.
They’re also used to talking to people.
I was gonna say that.
And so, I think it’s really good for them to kind of take that next step.
But it’s also important for them to understand that you can just jump in.
There is sometimes of a process.
There’s not a right or wrong way to do it, but there are definitely ways that you can smooth your entry into it.
Yeah.
And we definitely will do it again.
I think, if I remember right, you said maybe every other year or so.
Yeah, I think try to do them in off years, because then it gets to the point to where you have members actively campaigning or something, and obviously, if they’re campaigning, we would recommend they’re out campaigning, not focusing on what we’re doing here.
Right.
So yeah.
Yeah.
So we’ll definitely talk about that.
And then before we jump into our real topic, I’m going to ask this question.
So you can say, that’s off limits.
But so often spouses that work together or that don’t work together, they say, I would never work with my spouse.
But you and Addison seem to be a great team.
How does that work?
How does it work?
Yeah, well, I appreciate you saying that.
So we met at the Capitol.
Addison had graduated law school, started working for her hometown senator.
And I said, came in after campaigns.
And I always remember, I started down there, I think in November of 12, she started January 8th, January 28th, 2013.
I remember that was the very first day of session.
And she had just kind of got thrown in the fire.
And yeah, so we were staffers together.
So we kind of don’t know anything different than working together.
Worked against each other a few times when they were Senate staffers.
And then I was at a different firm for a few years and lobbied against each other a few times.
But it just, the opportunity came up to kind of join forces.
And it’s been great, especially during COVID.
I think a lot of our friends said, how are you at home?
With my spouse, like, I want to strangle them.
It’s like, well, this is just our normal thing.
But it’s been great.
We have two kids, so we’re able to split the workload.
And previously, it was like, we may both have something at night.
So it’s worked out well.
I mean, I think her work of chasing me for eight months there early on definitely paid off for it, if y’all can believe that.
But yeah, it’s been great.
We enjoy it.
I can’t wait till she hears us.
All right, so we’re going to jump into this.
And again, I am going to say that I’m often stopped and told that we have the best lobby team, that you all have the best connections, y’all done the best job.
And I know it started with Russ years and years and years ago.
And we are very lucky.
And so again, thank you for all of the work.
We’re so glad y’all are on the team.
This year has been like every other year, we start out, we have so much going on, and y’all are right on top of it.
Y’all go through, I don’t even know how many bills, thousands, I think.
Yeah, about 1500 bills fall out every year.
That you, yeah.
And thank God for it, because Realtors, I know they couldn’t do that job.
Not that they couldn’t do it, but they’re too busy to do it.
Too busy, yeah.
So of all of the things that we’re tracking, give us some insight.
So what are some of the different things that we’re tracking this year?
Yeah, I think this year, there’s about 162 bills that we’re tracking that could have very small impacts on the industry, or very large impacts.
Out of those, we’re not concerned about all of them.
We’re supporting some of them.
We’re opposed with some of them.
We’re working with sponsor.
I mean, we’re just trying to get amendments.
And obviously, some of those impact property rights, or landlord responsibilities, or just government restrictions, or red tape on the industry as a whole.
And then outside of the ones we’re tracking, the association has two bills that have drafted and brought.
Obviously, our wholesaling bill, which I think, you know, government affairs committee was brought to their attention that oftentimes consumers are confused or have been a part of a transaction where they were unaware that their property was part of a wholesale transaction.
So that bill, as you know, is seeking to just have disclosure when the contract is entered and when that contract is ultimately assigned over, that the wholesaler in that situation only has an equitable interest and not full ownership.
We just think that’s important.
Obviously, government affairs thinks it’s important that the consumer has that disclosure and protection.
And then our second bill, as you know, is the principal broker continuing education.
I think obviously laws, rules, regulations on our industry are changing every day.
And if a broker is going to be managing affiliate brokers, I think government affairs committee thought it was important that they were up to speed on those new rules regulations.
So that would reinstate the 16-hour requirement.
And then obviously, Senate Joint Resolution 1, which the Tennessee Realtors is a part of, a broader coalition led by Farm Bureau.
And that’s seeking to amend the state constitution to ban a state property tax.
Obviously, I think we all agree that that’s a huge step for housing affordability.
We already have the property tax at the local level.
A lot of folks don’t know that in Tennessee, we do have a property tax.
It’s just set at zero.
And that’s why this resolution is so important to make sure that if there is ever a fiscal situation where the state gets in trouble, they can’t just easily go back to that state property tax and levy it.
So that’s a few of the things we’re working on this year.
Right.
All of them are so important.
And just to make sure everybody is clear on how we actually select the issues that we’re going to follow, or if we do come up with issues that we feel like we need to have the bill drafted, it’s not that you all just grab them out of the blue.
We actually have a committee that you take these to and that they are the ones that weigh in.
That’s the member’s voice.
Yeah, for sure.
And I think, you know, that’s something we often run into where we’ll be at an event and a member will say, hey, what about this?
And our response is always, we’ll take it to Government Affairs.
I think the Government Affairs Committee through the years, it’s changed a lot, but there’s always been very good members on there and the members are engaged in the process.
And yeah, so we always encourage if the local association has an issue that they find important, go through your local process, bring it up to the State Government Affairs Committee, let it be vetted there, and that’s where we get our kind of our marching orders.
And same thing on the bills we’re tracking in support or opposition.
I know we’ll track those, send them over, and then Government Affairs ultimately will have a position call, I guess, where they go through all these calls or all these bills and say, you know, oppose, monitor, support.
Right.
And that process is is ongoing throughout session.
Right.
I know Governmental Affairs is one of the most popular committees that we have.
They’re trying to get on that one.
And so it is it’s a really good committee to be involved with.
I’ve always I think Addison obviously does a lot more of that day to day.
But my interaction with Government Affairs has always been awesome.
I think, you know, like you said, it’s popular.
A lot of folks are just kind of enamored with government.
Yeah, they they’re not sure what the process is, but they think it’s kind of a cool process.
And so it’s awesome that there’s such good response every year to get on that committee.
Right.
So are there any specific issues or opportunities, challenges that you think the realtors are going to face this year or already involved with?
Yeah, I think every year there’s a few bills that could have a detrimental effect on the industry.
There are a few bills this year that we’re opposing or working with a sponsor.
And obviously, at the end of the day, our goal is that we can either get them amended or get them killed, for lack of a better word, I guess, to make sure there is no negative impact.
But there aren’t too many out there that have huge negative impacts, but there are definitely some on landlord restrictions, whether it be landlord registries or just governmental raw tape.
You know, over the years, we’ve seen definitely about, you know, if a tenant moves out and the disposal of things are left over, it’s just sometimes small things, but could have a huge impact on our industry.
And sometimes it’s that the representatives or the senators, they don’t think through all of the small details that you’re talking about, so it’s educating them.
They go, oh, I didn’t see it that way.
Oh, for sure.
I don’t know how many times over the years, I think oftentimes when we’re working with clients, folks think that, oh my goodness, this bill is filed, they must not like us, or they must really have a negative view of us.
But oftentimes, there’s an issue in their district that’s brought to them, and they think, okay, well, I can fix this, this.
And they’re really not thinking about, okay, if we do this, how is this going to impact the state?
Or really, who is negatively impacted by this?
And oftentimes, maybe their goal really is worthy, but there are better ways to do it than passing laws.
So that’s oftentimes what we deal with is education, talking with legislators on, you know, if we do this, this is going to be the negative outcome.
Or sometimes, you know, if you do this, this is a very positive outcome.
So not every time there’s a bill filed that could impact us is, it’s not an attack on us.
It’s just kind of-
Education.
Yeah, and that’s exactly why we have that tagline, we’re the voice of real estate.
And I think that brings to light what we mean to our members, that we have people there in place at the Capitol, that when these things come up, you’re able to go and have these conversations to educate and make sure they understand how it does, in fact, it impacts either the industry or the consumer that maybe they had not thought through.
Yeah, for sure.
And when it comes to legislation, obviously, sometimes it’s more important to kill a bad bill than pass a good one.
And I think so oftentimes, when we talk to, you know, members of Tennessee Real Tours or other, you know, groups, understanding that just because you’re not passing a proactive bill that year doesn’t mean that it was not a non-productive year.
Oftentimes, a lot of things that we’re doing down there is protecting against bills that could be, you know, harmful to our members or to the organization, or not the organization, but the industry as a whole.
Mm-hmm, yeah.
A lot of times we hear, too, that, like, we get a lot of asks for, should we be involved in this or that?
And it may not necessarily have to do with real estate.
It may be something that’s totally unrelated, but we get asked, why aren’t you supporting this issue?
Because it’s morally right.
So talk for just a second why it’s really important when we stay in our lane to stay only about real estate issues, or consumer property right issues.
For sure, yeah, I think we definitely hear that a lot.
And I think some of that is just, folks understand that we have such a large membership and we do have a large reach.
But oftentimes, yes, when we’re looking at issues or when government affairs is looking at an issue, I think their task is to look at it through a lens of how does this affect the real estate industry?
How does this affect property rights?
And how does this affect consumer protection or the lack thereof?
And I think when members step through that door to vote on government affairs committee, they kind of have to take off their hat as a citizen or an East Tennessee and a West Tennessee and they really have to put on that hat of being a realtor.
And I think over the years, government affairs has done a really good job of that.
And there are some issues that our individual members may care about.
Or West Tennessee as a division of the state may care about more.
But I think from our perspective, we really have to look at it holistically.
Is it going to impact consumers?
Is it going to impact property rights?
And is there going to be a statewide application?
And I think government affairs has always done a really good job of that.
It may not always be the popular decision with everybody.
But I think at the end of the day, those are kind of the qualifiers that are looked at.
Right, it’s our job, it’s our purpose for even being in business is just to focus on real estate issues.
And not to say that some of those other issues are important, but I think we just have to kind of keep more of a mission focus on the things that we can control.
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So, are there any legislative changes in discussion right now that affect affordable housing in Tennessee, or if there are, how might it impact buyers and sellers directly?
Yeah, I think the two big ones that come to mind, the governor and his state of the state announced the Tennessee Rural and Workforce Initiative.
And that’s going to set up a $30 million grant initiative focused on rural and workforce affordable housing.
So, I think that’s going to be something that’s really going to speak towards that issue.
And the state of the state, Governor Lee talked about how we are very blessed as a state that a lot of people, a lot of companies want to move to our Tennessee, or move to our state, but with that comes some growing pains.
Two of the growing pains he mentioned directly were the supply of housing and the affordability of housing.
And so I think as an association, we really like to hear where his heart was on that issue, and have seen a few things that he’s trying to do to address housing affordability and housing supply.
And I think that is one of them.
So that’s something that we’re working to support this year to get kind of across the finish line.
I think that’ll be a good initiative, and appreciate Governor Lee bringing that initiative.
We talked about it earlier, but SJR 1, which is the state property tax, I think that’s a great way to keep housing affordability down, is to not allow another government tax or government fee to be added on to property.
So I think that’s another important one.
Yeah, yeah, we really do appreciate everything he’s doing.
While we’re doing our appreciations of the governor, I do want to say we had the opportunity to meet with him regarding the disaster that happened over in East Tennessee.
And again, really appreciate all his efforts in helping the people there.
Because again, that’s a housing crisis when you have people that lost their houses in the floods.
And he was there like every day.
Yeah, I think that was a big response.
And also we had special session, and that was geared towards, or part of it was geared towards the Hurricane Relief.
Also just shout out to the Realist Relief Foundation.
I know when that tragedy struck, we were able to activate that.
I know a lot of legislators were over, you know, thrilled to be able to take that back to their constituents.
So just prop to our members for donating to that.
Yeah, and through NAR, we shared this with the governor.
We were able to bring in, now it’s up to $160,000 into the state to help people.
They each got $1,000 toward their relief.
And that was in addition to anything they got through FEMA or anywhere else.
Yeah, and it was interesting to talk about properly.
There was an accessor of properties in East Tennessee, and as they’re talking about that, property values still increased even with the damages.
And so I think as we talk about housing affordability, that’s just an interesting kind of tidbit that properties were drastically damaged from a hurricane, but because of everything, you know, those values still increase.
Yeah, it’s just crazy still to me to think about Tennessee being damaged from a hurricane.
From a hurricane, yeah.
Just a tropical storm, but a hurricane.
Yeah, I think unspeakable, I mean, of what you would never expect, flooding like that in a mountainous region.
Right, right.
So let’s talk about first time homebuyers.
What policies are you expecting that is going to increase the accessibility for first time homebuyers?
Yeah, another initiative by Governor Lee was the first time homebuyer revolving fund construction.
Might have butchered that name a little bit, but the overall goal of that is it’s going to be a $60 million revolving fund to provide 0% construction loans to first time homebuyers.
And so I think some of the details are still being kind of rolled out on that, but that will be a great initiative for folks to be able to access 0% loans to build that first home.
Kind of coming back to what Governor Lee talked about with housing supply and housing affordability.
I think it’s awesome that, you know, taking some small steps, but good first steps.
There’s a long way to go, definitely, on housing affordability and first time home buyers, but I think the Revolving Fund will be a good first step.
Again, it’s just great to see affordability be at the forefront of the thought process, right?
Yeah.
To get us there.
For sure.
I think it’s been awesome to see Governor Lee, like I said earlier, where his heart has been on this issue, and it’s good to see steps being taken, because I think there are things that can be done, you know, from the government, and it’s been great to see them taking that issue up.
Yeah, I agree.
So you mentioned some of the bills that we’ve been working on.
Are there some wins that you can talk about that we advocated for that you can say that we helped to get the wins over the goal line?
Yeah, I think that’s a good question.
I think a couple bills that come to mind are, you know, foreign ownership laws over the last few years.
It’s been very popular at the national level, the state level.
We’ve seen a few of them here, and that was one bill, a couple bills, I guess, on that same issue, where government affairs stepped in and said, hey, philosophically, we may not get involved in this issue, but we just want to make sure that our members are protected.
And so that was one where we worked to amend in liability protections.
And that way, if our members are involved in these transactions, maybe unknowingly, or without having to ask the nationality of a buyer or a buyer-sheller, which would obviously violate fair housing laws, that they could be protected liability-wise.
And then just other negative bills that government affairs either amended or worked to defeat.
Right.
I think a lot of times, we don’t do a good enough job of making sure that all of our members are aware of everything.
But one of the things I think is really important is to make sure our members know, it’s not just residential properties.
We do a lot with commercial properties, farm properties, all different types.
It’s not just we’re advocating for residential homeowners.
Yeah, I think oftentimes, we sometimes even down on the hill, we’ll talk to a legislature, and they’re like, why would the realtors care about this?
I think one that really comes to mind was there was an issue in regards to TWRA agents coming on to property.
I think that’s ultimately been fixed through legal cases.
But that was an issue that we got engaged on.
A lot of folks were, why would we care?
But at kind of the crux of the issue was a property rights issue.
And so, yes, we do engage on issues that may not be thought to be a normal issue for us, but when you really dig deep, is a consumer being harmed, or could be harmed, or are property rights being infringed on?
Right.
So talk about member involvement.
A lot of times, you will let us know we need to have members either speak on behalf of an issue, send letters on behalf of an issue, send a contingency to go meet with people, and then of course we do our day on the hill every year.
How important is it that the members actually get involved with issues?
I’m going to throw one more kink in there.
We have our TNPC program where we assign a member and a team to each representative or senator.
So talk about that member involvement and how important it is.
Yeah, I can’t stress how important it is for member engagement in the advocacy space.
You know, at the end of the day, you know, as we talked about, Addison and I are up there on a daily basis, and we’re working on these issues.
But legislators would so much rather hear from a local constituent.
You know, they hear from us every day on all these issues.
But when a constituent comes in and really says, well, this is how this is going to affect my business, or this is how it’s going to affect my neighbor, that really hits home a lot more.
They oftentimes, obviously, they’re down here for weeks at a time.
Sometimes they just enjoy seeing a familiar face from back home.
So getting involved in the advocacy process of the organization, I can’t stress enough, especially with Down the Hill.
I know every year folks will ask me, when are your realtors going to be up here?
Because there’s hundreds of them.
And so being involved in that advocacy process, and especially the TMPC program, is really important.
And if you do that program, make sure you utilize it.
Just pop in and take them out to a cup of coffee.
Just check in with them.
And always remember to stress, these folks are taking time away from their families, away from their business.
They’re often losing money to serve down here.
And so just always remembering that, at the end of the day, they are serving to better our state.
And just always let them know that we’re so appreciative of that.
And I think it’s important.
And then, you know, Day on the Hill, like I said, is huge.
And then the reception that we had this year.
I think it’s a good time.
It’s a good time for our members, but it’s just a really good time for our members to talk with their local legislators, maybe in an environment that’s not just talking about legislative issues.
Yeah, I’m glad you mentioned the reception, because Day on the Hill and the reception is a great opportunity for the members to come and be able to meet, if nothing else, to meet their senators and their representatives.
Yeah, I’m going to flip the question just a little bit, because with the National Association of Realtors under the Charter, we call ourselves in a three-way agreement.
So National Association works with the national level legislative branch.
State does state, and local does local.
So just to put it in perspective for our listeners, we would never go to Washington and start doing advocacy.
We stick to our state, and we would never go into the local area unless a local came to us and said, we need some help with something.
We would never go advocate in the local space with their city councils or any of that.
So how important is it, in your opinion, that we all kind of, or how successful is it that we all operate that way?
Because I would imagine that if everybody started crossing over, there would be a lot of confusion.
Oh, for sure.
I think it’s important to, you know, understand where your lane, for lack of a better term, but-
What do we call it, lanes?
Yeah, like you said, I would not be effective if I went to DC and started lobbying.
Everything works differently up there.
Even the local level, it works differently.
And I know sometimes we might blur the lines a little bit.
Obviously, we have a fly-in where our state members go to DC, and we have down the hill where locals come to the state, and we’re appreciative of all of our members doing that at all levels.
But it’s also important for our local associations to focus on their local issues and keep things back down there.
And at the state level, we appreciate the support, but at the end of the day, we need to have a unified message.
And so, Government Affairs has taken a position on a bill as a state association as a whole.
And so, being able to stay on that message of this is what the state association is saying, and speaking with that one voice is important.
If you start kind of speaking about how it impacts one local community outside of the state as a whole, it could really confuse the issue, and sometimes things can kind of get a little haywire.
So, I think understanding when Government Affairs or the state association has taken a stance on an issue that kind of allowing that process to work out.
Obviously, state communication goes to the state association, I think, has always worked well.
I think the Real Tea Organization as a whole has great structure at each step, and I think it’s important to kind of let those processes work.
And I’ll say this, that’s exactly what NAR would say, and I think the locals would say the same thing to their members, because each local member is going to have their, why aren’t we talking to the Board of Education about this?
So it’s the same thing, everybody has that process, so that you’re representing the majority or what’s best for the whole entire community.
But NAR would say, that’s what is the envy of so many other organizations, is because we do have our processes, and we speak with one voice, and it works so well, and it’s what’s been able to get us to where we are today, where we are respected at each level by those that served, and we’re able to make a difference in our communities.
Absolutely.
Get involved, and there’s lots of ways to get involved, but once the process has started, just try and stay within the process.
It makes it easier for everyone and everything, for sure.
Right.
And again, I can’t thank you and Addison and the whole team enough for everything that you all do.
You all have represented us so well.
I hear it so often.
What a great representation we have at the Capitol.
And you all come and do these types of things anytime we ask.
I don’t know how you find the time to do it.
We enjoy it.
We appreciate it.
Thanks for having us.
Yeah.
Thank you.
And I think I’ll be calling on you again.
There’s so many different topics we could call it.
Yeah.
Addison’s been on twice.
It’s not a competition at home, but.
Y’all can start counting.
But thank you.
We appreciate it so much.
Thanks for having us.
Thank you all for joining us today on the Real Tea Podcast.
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